tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post5860842138028835587..comments2023-06-15T11:59:39.572-04:00Comments on DYVERS: Some Thoughts on PathfinderDyvershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-46020641202005990172014-04-15T09:51:28.130-04:002014-04-15T09:51:28.130-04:00""New Classes" is not the same as &...""New Classes" is not the same as "New Rules"." <br /><br />I absolutely do not agree with you here. New classes are one of the biggest ways new rules come into the game. It was new classes that helped usher in the quick and swift moves in Third and it's through class abilities that often times broken abilities are brought into the game. The problem is that Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-44263290254017626892014-04-14T13:25:29.070-04:002014-04-14T13:25:29.070-04:00And because I have a high amount of faith in Paizo...And because I have a high amount of faith in Paizo I worry that they're heading that same way. <br /><br />(sorry for the split comment, my son hit publish before I was through)Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-78954184171960939852014-04-14T13:24:20.756-04:002014-04-14T13:24:20.756-04:00"You know they put out two new adventures eve..."You know they put out two new adventures every month, right? One AP and one standalone module? The latest Adventure Path installment is #80. I can't think of another game that is as well-supported in the adventure department as Pathfinder."<br /><br />I both knew that, and agree with you. In fact, my entire point was that they do such a great job with their adventure paths and Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-21201750007699139202014-04-14T10:31:48.645-04:002014-04-14T10:31:48.645-04:00"I just think that they would be better serve..."I just think that they would be better served concentrating on adventures than on creating more rules and classes."<br /><br />You know they put out two new adventures every month, right? One AP and one standalone module? The latest Adventure Path installment is #80. I can't think of another game that is as well-supported in the adventure department as Pathfinder. <br /><br />They Blacksteelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16289298640828309072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-58077280870565736912014-04-14T10:21:01.657-04:002014-04-14T10:21:01.657-04:00"New Classes" is not the same as "N..."New Classes" is not the same as "New Rules". They added new rules last year in the form of Mythic Adventures and Ultimate Campaign - completely optional sets of mechanics that run alongside the core rules without interfering in them. As a DM you can use either, neither, or both, depending on how you want your campaign to go. Adding more classes to the game really only impactsBlacksteelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16289298640828309072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-65955763821290885862014-04-09T18:35:56.449-04:002014-04-09T18:35:56.449-04:00"Too bad this industry is so insecure that th..."Too bad this industry is so insecure that that is the best we have to go on"<br /><br />True story. <br /><br />So many questions about the state of our hobby and about our own insecurities associated with it could be answered by allowing us to know more. I mean the industry is becoming more open - the open playtests speak to that - but there are still so many people who are afraid Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-42333107767900803302014-04-09T17:18:51.246-04:002014-04-09T17:18:51.246-04:00“So let's just say that we disagree on this po...“So let's just say that we disagree on this point.”<br /><br />Fair enough.<br /><br />I’m certainly not defending the incompetence of TSR in its last days. And certainly Wizards has done a lot that is good. I’m just saying that I’ve seen a significant number of people turn away from the hobby because they didn’t like 3e, and they assumed it was representative. Some of them I was able to Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-66533991393286227212014-04-09T15:03:24.618-04:002014-04-09T15:03:24.618-04:00"I also think they have to recognize that RPG..."I also think they have to recognize that RPGs are fundamentally different than their other products. Steve Jackson doesn’t expect GURPS and Munchkin to bring in the same amount of revenue. If the RPG part of the company is expected to be as profitable as other parts, it is doomed"<br /><br />From what I've seen they recognize that D&D is not going to be as profitable as Magic Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-81060482381674053532014-04-09T14:49:57.749-04:002014-04-09T14:49:57.749-04:00“Now don't get me wrong, Wizards wants their t...“Now don't get me wrong, Wizards wants their top spot back. Who wouldn’t?”<br /><br />“I prefer it rather than having a company that every few years do a total facelift and you’re ‘forced’ to buy again everything if you want to keep up.”<br /><br />“Their whole goal is to expand Dungeons and Dragons into new areas and open up the entire RPG market to new customers.”<br /><br />Right there, I Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-34921172302680086822014-04-09T14:01:04.111-04:002014-04-09T14:01:04.111-04:00Only time will tell. If the playtest is any measu...Only time will tell. If the playtest is any measure, they have a legitimate shot at retaking the title. It's going to be a good fight though, even if both companies are saying there is no fight. Yeah right.Jim Haltomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18027543630803308847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-89473146663965975282014-04-09T13:28:11.011-04:002014-04-09T13:28:11.011-04:00I think that Wizards responded to the new edition ...I think that Wizards responded to the new edition by doing the same thing they'd always done and that's contract their outward presence as they focused on the future. It usually produces great content, but on this occasion it allowed Pathfinder to supplant them. <br /><br />I wonder how successful they will be in bringing people back on board?Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-29627460116138956842014-04-09T13:25:39.392-04:002014-04-09T13:25:39.392-04:00True story.True story.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-11277544147791781322014-04-09T12:39:36.698-04:002014-04-09T12:39:36.698-04:00Sure thing Giuseppe! There are tons of blogs, pod...Sure thing Giuseppe! There are tons of blogs, podcasts, websites dedicated to 4th edition. Now, is it as popular as Pathfinder? Not by a long shot. Paizo did it right and made a solid version of 3.5 and they captured the top spot. But it has been my experience that there is a very large 4th following as well. And this comes from someone who can't stand 3.5 or Pathfinder or 4th by any Jim Haltomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18027543630803308847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-6607198892983504962014-04-09T10:34:46.834-04:002014-04-09T10:34:46.834-04:00I hope you are right, Charles, and I'm rooting...I hope you are right, Charles, and I'm rooting for this to happen. More people are playing the RPG and the easier it is to find new players! ;)<br />In addition, I am extremely convinced of the potential psycho-pedagogical inside RPG, which can also help people to learn and express himself better.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772329817644671667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-32485812618369463712014-04-09T10:26:56.105-04:002014-04-09T10:26:56.105-04:00Me too, Charles. :)Me too, Charles. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772329817644671667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-55774845463636622642014-04-09T10:25:25.611-04:002014-04-09T10:25:25.611-04:00Jim Haltom you are sure of this statement "Su...Jim Haltom you are sure of this statement "Sure, lots of people love 4th,"?<br /><br />Both personally and through forums, blogs and social I know a lot of people that dislike 4th, or at least prefer Pathfinder/3.5.<br /><br />Try to get a ride on online gaming platforms (eg Roll20) or PbF or PbC or PBEM and looks at how they use Pathfinder/3.5 and how many 4th and you will realize it Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772329817644671667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-48142885266010444382014-04-09T10:18:08.627-04:002014-04-09T10:18:08.627-04:00"In about 35 years I cultivate this hobby, yo..."In about 35 years I cultivate this hobby, you want to know how many times I have heard this statement?"<br /><br />True story.<br /><br />"I hope that this time they have found the magic formula."<br /><br />Their CEO, Greg Leeds, has put forth a pretty ambitious plan that really has some legs under it. Just look at how they've been doing the Sundering and you can see howDyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-79324340242914293942014-04-09T10:11:13.483-04:002014-04-09T10:11:13.483-04:00"Their whole goal is to expand Dungeons and D..."Their whole goal is to expand Dungeons and Dragons into new areas and open up the entire RPG market to new customers."<br /><br />In about 35 years I cultivate this hobby, you want to know how many times I have heard this statement? TSR>Wizards>Hasbro ... and after 35 years this hobby is again for niche. :)<br /><br />I hope that this time they have found the magic formula.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772329817644671667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-86251580646357921632014-04-09T10:08:23.288-04:002014-04-09T10:08:23.288-04:00"I prefer it rather than having a company tha..."I prefer it rather than having a company that every few years do a total facelift and you're "forced" to buy again everything if you want to keep up."<br /><br />I'm not particularly a fan of new edition after new edition either. Ideally I would like a system that was mostly static with a huge volume of adventures, settings, and the like sold to support it.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-89828253414270688102014-04-09T10:03:25.075-04:002014-04-09T10:03:25.075-04:00"with 5th edition D&D, Wizards has latche..."with 5th edition D&D, Wizards has latched on to the "simpler is better" mantra that so many other game companies have embraced and been very successful with."<br /><br />And thank god they have! I'm fine with complexity but in order to teach the game to new players I need something I can bring them in without spending six hours explaining the damned thing to them. Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-25047720556428190872014-04-09T10:02:55.199-04:002014-04-09T10:02:55.199-04:00Charles, surely your argument is valid, but probab...Charles, surely your argument is valid, but probably part of their public also asks for new rules, and I prefer it rather than having a company that every few years do a total facelift and you're "forced" to buy again everything if you want to keep up. Instead in this way I can decide whether or not to implement the new rules, because the core rules are always the same. (Any Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09772329817644671667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-60034690925102753162014-04-09T10:01:43.453-04:002014-04-09T10:01:43.453-04:00I think what really hurt 4e was when Wizards made ...I think what really hurt 4e was when Wizards made a ton of promises that never materialized or that fell far short of expectations. They're not doing that with 5th so at least they've learned from that mistake. Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-73279233163672498842014-04-09T09:59:41.517-04:002014-04-09T09:59:41.517-04:00"I would agree, but if Wizards were satisfied..."I would agree, but if Wizards were satisfied with a niche, they would’ve stuck with 4e."<br /><br />Wizards is most definitely not satisfied with being in a small niche. Their whole goal is to expand Dungeons and Dragons into new areas and open up the entire RPG market to new customers. <br /><br />I really hope they're successful because the more people who come into this hobby Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-22533819206585576022014-04-09T09:56:21.380-04:002014-04-09T09:56:21.380-04:00Paizo is run by some really smart people and I hav...Paizo is run by some really smart people and I have a lot of faith in them as a whole.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-75921797972377118962014-04-09T09:55:30.169-04:002014-04-09T09:55:30.169-04:00That's a good point.That's a good point.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.com