tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post8253259936932916460..comments2023-06-15T11:59:39.572-04:00Comments on DYVERS: Dungeons & Dragons Doesn't Have to Follow the Traditional Foundation Laid by Tolkien. Dyvershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-45116588562776529662017-06-21T20:55:03.304-04:002017-06-21T20:55:03.304-04:00"Doesn't Paizo attempting to do exactly t..."Doesn't Paizo attempting to do exactly that?"<br /><br />How so?Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-66487895513152329122017-06-21T20:54:13.664-04:002017-06-21T20:54:13.664-04:00Interesting. I always want to play Savage Worlds b...Interesting. I always want to play Savage Worlds but my wife hates it with a passion so, since we game together, I don't get to play it.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-4355375247581148372017-06-21T20:52:49.916-04:002017-06-21T20:52:49.916-04:00Then I'll give them a try.Then I'll give them a try.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-85938444081181745052017-06-21T20:52:28.894-04:002017-06-21T20:52:28.894-04:00Actually reading it now - ish. It's my nightst...Actually reading it now - ish. It's my nightstand book so I tend to read a few pages before bed at night. Eventually I will finish it. Eventually.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-48070684906629514162017-06-21T17:23:48.623-04:002017-06-21T17:23:48.623-04:00Doesn't Paizo attempting to do exactly that?
...Doesn't Paizo attempting to do exactly that?<br /><br />As for me, after few unsuccessful attempts to get into D&D scene, few highly enjoyable iа very specific WoD games, I embraced the paradigm of weird and to some extent implemented in all m campaigns, starting from Risus and contuning with Fate.<br /><br />Weird, gimmicky, cringy epic, mysterious and egdy my game with varying degrees Cognizant-Daydreamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11012881227025326012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-67513519349930894142017-06-21T12:04:59.286-04:002017-06-21T12:04:59.286-04:00I agree with what others have said about market fo...I agree with what others have said about market forces driving this trend more than anything else. If more people wanted Gonzo Fantasy WotC would probably be publishing Gamma World 5th edition right now instead of Dungeons and Dragons. As a side note, I don't mind the implied default Dungeons and Dragons setting so much? From a design standpoint I think "ease of use" was high on theAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15126627888561403463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-15711383125284982702017-06-21T06:27:12.511-04:002017-06-21T06:27:12.511-04:00I'm hardly an expert. I discovered his stuff v...I'm hardly an expert. I discovered his stuff via Kindle sales. A lot of it is short, though. I'd start with some of the stories. Danno E. Cabezahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00514343832663815418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-15635277792406186252017-06-21T05:45:40.273-04:002017-06-21T05:45:40.273-04:00BTW, I second the Playing at the World recommendat...BTW, I second the Playing at the World recommendation. Very good book about the origins of D&D and gaming in general.Phil Dutréhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607941040736764291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-48787862552029167042017-06-21T05:45:02.972-04:002017-06-21T05:45:02.972-04:00I gather your meaning now. I'll have to mull t...I gather your meaning now. I'll have to mull this over for a bit.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-45763048025170485662017-06-21T05:43:48.831-04:002017-06-21T05:43:48.831-04:00And to add some more guesswork: perhaps it's n...And to add some more guesswork: perhaps it's not a coincidence that fantasy roleplaying originated in the US, and not in Europe, where (subconsciously) there might be less creative freedom to play with history, because medieval history is part of the culture and upbringing.Phil Dutréhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607941040736764291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-35059505401908603592017-06-21T05:34:48.998-04:002017-06-21T05:34:48.998-04:00W.r.t. Disney reference: I was talking about style...W.r.t. Disney reference: I was talking about style, and this was not meant as a derogatory comment. But I do feel that AD&D always portrayed an idealized, romantic, polished version of medieval fantasy (cfr. SCA). When you live in Europe, and you very much familiar with real medieval history and stories, you crave for something else. Rules like the original Warhammer FRP tapped into that Phil Dutréhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607941040736764291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-76230352342927179182017-06-20T16:54:47.110-04:002017-06-20T16:54:47.110-04:00I'm on mobile right now so it will be a bit be...I'm on mobile right now so it will be a bit before I can read the article but thank you in advance for sharing it with me. I'm looking forward to reading it. <br /><br />"Bottom line is that publishers are selling more of the same because that's what most of the customers seem to want. The customer may not always be right, but the customer is always the customer."<br /><br /Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-16453521771188941372017-06-20T16:50:07.298-04:002017-06-20T16:50:07.298-04:00Thanks for that article from Wizards Dan! I'm ...Thanks for that article from Wizards Dan! I'm really looking forward to reading it.<br /><br />Also, about Moorecock, I've never been able to get through any of his books. I've tried to read the Elric stuff but just become bored. Do you have a recommendation for me to try besides that line?Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-57093586016603545282017-06-20T16:47:52.516-04:002017-06-20T16:47:52.516-04:00Interesting conclusions Phil, but I find that they...Interesting conclusions Phil, but I find that they are leaving me with quite a few questions. Are you arguing that there is not a strong fanbase for darker, grittier settings in the United States? If you are, what are you basing that conclusion on? How are you comparing AD&D's fanbase in Europe to the D&G games? <br /><br />Why do you call AD&D a Disney version of medieval fantasy?Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-75191912573913907102017-06-20T16:41:59.105-04:002017-06-20T16:41:59.105-04:00I'm hoping your wrong too. I'd love to see...I'm hoping your wrong too. I'd love to see Wizards of the Coast jump into Eberron or Spell Jammer, or Planescape again.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-78736797745684377812017-06-20T13:03:39.009-04:002017-06-20T13:03:39.009-04:00This was written back in 1986 about pulp fantasy, ...This was written back in 1986 about pulp fantasy, but applies to pretty much all pop culture:<br /><br />http://ansible.uk/Ansible/plotdev.html<br /><br />Bottom line is that publishers are selling more of the same because that's what most of the customers seem to want. The customer may not always be right, but the customer is always the customer.azmountaintrollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01009527590383698138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-63915063535464359972017-06-20T06:41:19.799-04:002017-06-20T06:41:19.799-04:00That bottom one talks quite a bit about converting...That bottom one talks quite a bit about converting black powder weapons to D&D--another thing I remember from back in the day. I'll note that I think those sorts of weapons are fine for the game, up until you get to the invention of rifling. Rifled muskets have too much range and would do too much damage, thereby breaking the math.Danno E. Cabezahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00514343832663815418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-64993495320451870442017-06-20T06:34:41.843-04:002017-06-20T06:34:41.843-04:00The early TSR got way into this kind of thing. As...The early TSR got way into this kind of thing. As a kid, I remember playing Star Frontiers at least as much as we played D&D, and they had a module back in the late 70s that was a dungeon delve through a crashed spaceship--Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. <br /><br />Full disclosure: I had to look that one up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedition_to_the_Barrier_Peaks.<br /><br />Also: Danno E. Cabezahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00514343832663815418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-2079069589977398752017-06-20T06:29:50.903-04:002017-06-20T06:29:50.903-04:00Although Tolkien's influence is definitely the...Although Tolkien's influence is definitely there, I always felt that AD&D presented more of a Disney version of medieval fantasy, compared to (real) medieval history and stories. If you wanted to play a campaign true to the spirit of Tolkien's Middle Earth, AD&D is not the best way to do it. I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the darker and grittier roleplaying Phil Dutréhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607941040736764291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-33234870878614920702017-06-20T05:41:28.879-04:002017-06-20T05:41:28.879-04:00I bet you’ve already read it, “Playing at the Worl...I bet you’ve already read it, “Playing at the World” by Jon Peterson takes a bit of deep dive here it comes to how D&D ended up being what it was when it began. Some of the things touched on in that book still ripple through what people think of as D&D today.<br />Though I feel (without any real proof,) that the WotC embrace of Tolkien style fantasy is sales driven. D&D is the gatewayMarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793781986788315513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5124770754805827894.post-67750200345520007002017-06-20T05:27:51.708-04:002017-06-20T05:27:51.708-04:00Over on Google Plus +Juan Ocha, who you should tot...Over on Google Plus +Juan Ocha, who you should totally follow if you aren't, brought up Tekumel as both an example and answer to this situation. I cannot disagree with him.Dyvershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032957275132817602noreply@blogger.com